Tuesday, January 20, 2009

Gotta say this - cause I'm NOT a victim, just pissed

From someone I know... This is in response to my comments on a Neocon blog concerning the costs and the control of security for the inauguration:

"Your husband's chances of survival have decreased because of your political chances. I seriously hope nothing happens to him, or any other soldier, but the fact is, we have a higher deployment and casualty rate when led by members of the party that see us as gun-toting neanderthals."

The author of the blog decided that I was playing a Victim, because I objected to being told my political choice has endangered my husband. This - my friends and readers - is why I sometimes wonder about my fellow military family members... why would anyone say this to the wife of a serving member of the military? why?

If I had said that to the wife of this man - who is a Purple Heart recipient, and wounded in combat - how would he have reacted? If I had said your husband wouldn't have been wounded except for your political choice of Bush - who made the choice to invade Iraq, how would she have reacted? Quite rightly, I would expect she would have kicked my ass, and would have been justified in doing so. She's a blogfriend of mine. I thought he was one too.

No, I'm not a victim. I'm a very proud Military Wife. Proud of my husband, proud of my fellow military family members, proud of my veteran son and daughter in law. But the pride in some of the members of this community has slipped.



Tucker said...

Well said my dear.

Jennifer said...

Tell me why I am still surprised when military members and their family members spew crap like that.
I'm so sorry. I'd like to kick his ass. But I have too much respect for his service.
Still - jerk.

Chuck said...

Sorry, but a friend tell you the truth, vice telling you something you want to hear?

If you told my wife that, she'd tell you I was wounded because I was doing my job, And President Bush was right to send us--and if I didn't think that way, I wouldn't have gone.

She not only believes in me, she believes in what I am doing, and the rightness of it. She never saw Iraq or Afghanistan as a mistake. She doesn't pity the wounded--especially not me. She treats them like people who've been hurt, and need to heal. She doesn't condescend.

And yes, I still think of you as a friend. When I stop talking to you, I've given up on you, and no longer care about you. People with shared experiences, with a common bond, especially in the military, often share things amongst themselves that can't share with others outside the military, because they simply don't get it.

Your vote, and the 52 million others who voted for "spreading the wealth" "hopenchange" and all the other platitudes spewed forth by the then candidate Obama, put someone into office that comes from the very party that has consistently weakened the military through poor funding, and high optempo. A weaker military, deployed more often, puts us at higher risk. That is an indisputable fact. I'm sorry you can't bring yourself to see that. I have, time and time again. I am still going to serve, because It will take people like me who persevere regardless of who is in office to keep our troops as well trained as possible, as well equipped as possible, and plan missions and operations that seek to manage the risk to our soldiers.

Maybe the POTUS will prove me wrong. I honestly hope he does. As I am sure you've heard, in military circles, Hope is NOT a method. So until such time as he proves me wrong, I will hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

Susi said...

furious. That's what I would have been. And speechless.

liberal army wife said...

First of all. let me say I'm surprised you read my blog, or is it that one of our mutual acquaintances alerted you to this - I wonder why.

Whether or not your wife supports you in your (to me misguided) belief that somehow Iraq posed any real threat to us with non existant WMDs or yellow cake etc.... I know that I would have had more taste than to say something like that to her. What I WANT to hear - you have no idea.

As to your latest comment - If you didn't believe, you wouldn't have gone?? hm... I'm trying to figure that one out - you say you were a serving member of the military, I didn't realize you could refuse to go when under orders.

As for "consistently weakened the military through poor funding, and high optempo" - the last 8 years the high optempo hasn't been from a democrat - has it? If it has, I've been asleep for the past 8 years. "A weaker military, deployed more often, puts us at higher risk. That is an indisputable fact." Yeah, that's a fact and tell me WHO has deployed us at this rate? excuse me, what was that??? the last administration? you win the prize, and that administration was - yes, that's right, a Republican administration. Rummy said (and at the time, our son was in Iraq, so I was pretty cognizant of facts) We go to war with the military we have, [I may be paraphrasing here]... Now as far as I remember, we went to war with Iraq (I don't include Afghanistan in any of this, I believe strongly we had a case for going in to Afghanistan and we should have kept our minds and military focused THERE - but I digress) We went to war with Iraq for a whole host of "reasons"... WMDs - there weren't any and if you want to include Saddam Hussein's "trying to get them".. there are a lot of countries trying to get them, we don't invade a country to stop that. Yellowcake Uranium - a giant pile of bullshit, which has been and was then known by the administration to be bullshit. Any link between Saddam Hussein and AlQuaeda - Non existent.

Yes, Saddam was an evil man, torturing and killing his own people - there are many "leaders" who are doing the same, but we don't invade them! Mugabe and his ilk - don't see us doing diddly there!

I've been an Army Wife - either Active, Reserve, or Guard since 1977. Lecturing me on the history of various parties and how they treat the military - we LIVED it. I'll agree that some Dems think of military as - how did you put it- guntoting neanderthals. But there are a lot of Repubs who think of us as ciphers, numbers that can be shoved around like counters on a board - useful for flag waving, chest thumping speeches.

I am not one who thinks President Obama is a messiah, walks on water, etc. I do have hope, that we can extricate ourselves from the predicaments we find ourselves in, I cannot live without Hope in my future. I am at a loss as to why you or other Repubs disdain the idea of hope, service to the community, changing what's broken... But I'm sure you couldn't see what we were angry about during the past 8 years.

Chuck, your words, which I am sure you staunchly believe, were hurtful and not those that a friend would use. There is no getting around that. None. I have spoken to mutual friends, and they also don't understand why you felt you needed to say that. Victim - I am not. Hurt - I am. and if you cannot or will not see why, I can't help you there.


Chuck said...

I read lots of blogs. You might want to know about this, since it seems to have slipped by amidst all the gnashing of teeth over the last 8 years: 500 tons of uranium shipped from Iraq

So yes Virginia, there WAS yellowcake uranium in Iraq.

Having gotten that out of the way, my family's lived the army life since 1970, so I know of where I speak.

I am an officer, so, If I don't believe in the mission, I can simply resign. Any soldier can seek conscientious objector status, and although they will usually still deploy, they will also be placed in a non-combat duty role.

Your blog constantly maligns the military, the nebulous "they." I am the they. You hate your FRG. What have you ever done to try and make it better? Have you ever led an FRG? Dragging your poor attitude into FRG meetings, kvetching about how they are a waste of time, etc, is doubtfully very helpful.

Fact is, I, and the rest of the military, had a much higher Operational tempo--deployments, under Clinton, and was never given anything remotely close to the gear we have today. New helmets, new cold weather gear, new desert gear, all the new equipment (like the MRAP) was unheard of in 2000. They (that is, guys like me) developed the Rapid Fielding Initiative to purchase the very best of commercial off the shelf technology, and where the equipment didn't exist, we hired designers to figure out how to make what we had better. (Ever heard of the MICH 2000 Helmet? It replaced the PASGT helmet introduced in 1985.

Yeah, we go to war with the Army we have, not the one we want. Otherwise we'd all have robotic exoskeletons that make us look like the terminator and are impervious to enemy fire. The technology exists, but we don't use it. There weren't warehouses full of new body armor to issue in 2003, we issued what we had to those most likely to get shot at. As more became available, we issued it. The problem wasn't money, it wasn't budget, it was a combination of emerging technology and there simply wasn't enough manufacturing capability at the time.

But indisputable facts are never going to sway you. They haven't yet, and I doubt they ever will. You refuse to believe that President Bush was a good, honorable man. You judged him not by his actions, but only by the spin you saw in the media. he became the one responsible for all of the nation's ills. Everything he did was evil, everything he didn't do was also evil. Quite honestly, I, and other "mutual friends" find you and your views tiring, at best. You're a good person, but you simply don't get it.

liberal army wife said...

Malign the military??? excuse me? I criticize, I object to stupidity, yes. I don't malign the group to which I belong. The Army and it's leadership can be obtuse, stupid, lacking in vision and frustrate most of us - complaints of unit command decisions are, I'm sure not unknown in YOUR household.

What were you doing yesterday? I was baking for a unit, right before I volunteered at my local cat shelter. The day before? I was organizing and decorating for a function - for military families. I support my military families, I support Soldiers Angels, Valour IT and many other groups that assist the military. Don't you DARE tell me I'm not loyal to my husband, to the soldiers and their families.

The FRG? I have volunteered in both of my FRGs, I have often been one of 4 or so who consistently attend meetings, bake, special projects. Attitude? I will happily give you the address of my former FRG leader, who quit in disgust due to the lack of contributions by everyone from the latest commander to the rank and file. She knew if she asked, I was there, that I volunteered for everything I was able to do. I have volunteered to lead the vFRG - but the unit decided it's unnecessary.

You can lecture all you want, after all that's what you do now. But you still, STILL will not understand how your remarks, whilst I'm sure you believe them, hurt. and again, Chuck, I can't help you there. A ramrod for a spine may be a great thing for a soldier, I don't think much of it in a "friend".


The Army Wife said...

I guess I don't understand what his point is here ...

You don't tell a Military Wife that her husband is going to die. PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

Your wife may support you, and support the mission ... great. But I doubt that she would readily accept this if someone else said it to her. Your chances of dying are just as good as the next guys, REGARDLESS of who you vote for. It's the reality of the job. We, as wives, get that it's a possibility.

But if you're wife was told "you know, you're husband may get killed" and she doesn't react? Dude, she does not love you very much.

You've missed LAW's point. What you said was cruel, and heartless. Nothing else. Get off your high horse and accept the fact that what you said was unneccesary.

Sorry LAW -- didn't mean to get involved, but SERIOUSLY. Dude needs to get a clue.

Chuck said...

I never said her husband was going to die. What I said was
"Your husband's chances of survival have decreased because of your political choices. I seriously hope nothing happens to him, or any other soldier, but the fact is, we have a higher deployment and casualty rate when led by members of the party that see us as gun-toting neanderthals."

Further, I illustrated that historically our optempo is increase under democrat leadership, and our budget decreased. More missions+smaller budget=higher risk.

She misconstrued that as my saying her husband was going to die. you did too. It's not he political choices alone, it's the political choice of her +52 million Americans, many of whom don't want to see the inherent risks associated with their choice over the appeal of a government handout.

I am the one with my life on the line. I pay attention to these things. maybe that's self serving, that I base my vote off which leader will not only be best for my country, but which one provides the best chances for successful military operations.

And yes, her loved one MAY get killed. It's a risk that goes with the uniform. Not recognizing that fact is simply setting herself up. I'm not saying she should dwell on that, but it's something I and my wife are pointedly aware of every time I walk out the door.

liberal army wife said...

well no shit. I've said goodbye a hell of a lot of times, to my husband and to my son - both going to the same nasty places.

And I illustrated that in the past 8 years optempo/deployments have risen exponentially - in A REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION!


Anonymous said...

Oh, LAW.
This is a simple case of someone who was beyond inappropriate getting called on it and trying to post-rationalize and blame you. That's the definition of a bully, my dear and sadly, just another military cliche.
Oh, and Chuck, "I am the they." Really?! Narcissistic much?

Anonymous said...

Chuck has his facts straight and he has the right to speak having given pieces of himself in the war on terror. what he said was neither cruel nor untrue. Your political choice has endangered many military persons, and my family as well. We have a new president that thinks that socialism is the new cool. I've lost entire generations of my family to socialism - the real cost of choices like yours. I have no aunts, no uncles, no grandparents because of socialism adn the ideals espoused by men like Obama. Real harm . . . I can only hope God guides his steps. Bush and men like Chuck have kept me safe, I'm not convinced that Obama will.

liberal army wife said...

Anon - if you don't have the guts to use your name.. don't bother me. My husband and my son "kept you safe".. My son gave years of his life, my husband is STILL giving years of OUR lives.. and YOU???? [crickets chirping....]


Anonymous said...

Exactly the response I expected from you. Since you have no idea who or what I am - you have no room to talk. My dad, my son, my best friends - all kept me safe by doing their duty in the military giving those years you talk of. Your husband and son have my thanks. A chronic illness kept me from doing the same - instead I volunteer all my spare time to support the military and those here at home that keep me safe. Yet you ask what others give. I expect that from someone who supports Obama - I expect that from someone who is likely looking for a hope change handout.

I don't use my name because you wouldn't believe me if I told you.

And you are just looking for a fight, you seem pretty miserable. You didn't address my statements at all. I didn't say your men didn't keep me safe, but you grasp on that and play . . . well . . . the victim. It fits after all.

Ann M. said...

Sometimes people scare me. The people who blindly think that the president can do no wrong (any of them, not just this one) and the ones who just assume because they're either a republican or democrat that X or Y is going to happen. Let the guy be in office for more than a day. Actions speak louder than words, so let's see where this all goes.

BTW--I am well aware that my husband might get killed every time he goes out there. That doesn't mean I want to be reminded of it. Ever. I especially don't want to be told that just because a democrat is in office, it's more LIKELY that he'll get killed. It doesn't matter how you word it, if that's still the point of your statement. I deal with that stuff my own way, at times when I can.

liberal army wife said...

look - I'm not looking for a fight. I'm saying that if you BELIEVE what you say, don't be anonymous. as for the rest of your statements. I still have NO idea how socialism hurt you. I don't find President Obama to be a socialist. and I'm done with this topic. He's the President. BASTA! enough. Either help him, or get out of the way. handout? I've never taken a handout in my life. I work for every dime, and I have (except for a brief time when I had a baby at home) since I was 18.

Do I want change? yes. Do I want some hope? yes. If you are satisfied with the status quo, great. just sit and enjoy it. I always thought making things better for everyone was the right thing to do... dare I say it the "christian" thing to do (I don't know what religion you espouse, so don't go off on that, ok?)

Anonymous comments will no longer be accepted on this blog. ever.


Anchored Away said...

Holy shit, LAW! Sorry to curse on your blog, but what a f#$%ing twatwaffle.

What a "friend" - bloggy or no. He saw the line, but he didn't just cross it. He blew past it. But then, I think that's the way many neocon military like to function - hyperbolic and inflammatory douchery so they can then twist your response to make themselves feel superior.

And really, in the end, it's all about superiority for them.

Good riddance to this asshole.